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How do you know if it works?
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| nightrain | Date: Wednesday, 2011-09-14, 7:29 PM | Message # 1 |
 Beith
Group: Fold
Messages: 12
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| I was reading a chapter in my fundamentals book and it got me curious. For those who have done spells, how do you know if a spell works?
For example, if you're applying for jobs and you do a spell to get a job, then you eventually get the job, how can you know if it was the spell and not just a coincidence since you were applying for jobs even before the spell. I know that magic is a combination of both will and action on the physical plane, but how do you decide if it was really a successful spell in action?
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| Lemur | Date: Wednesday, 2011-09-14, 7:47 PM | Message # 2 |
 She Who Must Be Obeyed
Group: Administrators
Messages: 454
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| Excellent question!
Honestly this is one of the hardest things to know. Is it "just coincidence" or is it real magick?
Magick, like water follows the path of least resistance, so if you make the "path" easy for it to follow you will certainly get better results.
Can we prove that your job find was magick though? Probably not. That's why I NEVER believe in charging for casting spells, and consider those who do rather shady. Besides, I could never care about YOUR job as much as you do - after all it doesn't directly affect my life, which is why I always suggest folks cast their own spells.
Okay I digress.
There is absolutely no way to know if it was "only" your spell that did it. If you did the work - putting out your resume, applying for jobs or whatever, then it was probably the COMBINATION of your magick and your practical work that made it happen.
Did the magick help? It sure couldn't have hurt. Did it make you feel more confident at your interview? Did it result in the interviewer being in a good mood when you showed up? Did it mean that your biggest competitor for the position didn't happen to notice the ad for the job? All of these are possible.
Once in a while you actually will have the results of a spell be pretty freaking obvious. A long time ago our coven did a wealth spell and wackily enough, every single member of the coven had some sort of results within 24 hours of the spell. That's probably more than sheer coincidence.
I also recommend keeping a journal of your spells, when you do them, the spell itself and any potential results.
The best "proof" is when you look over your journal and notice success after success.
“There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.” — Albert Einstein
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| Abbadonna | Date: Thursday, 2011-09-15, 4:39 PM | Message # 3 |
 Luis
Group: Seekers
Messages: 29
Status: Offline
| So, you said that performing spells for others and receiving money is shady but what about writing spells for others and accepting money?
It's not that I'm rebelling...Oh wait, yes it is
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| Lemur | Date: Thursday, 2011-09-15, 6:46 PM | Message # 4 |
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She Who Must Be Obeyed
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| The ethics of other people and other traditions may vary, but her's my feeling.
With performing spells for money 1) you just don't have the DESIRE for it to work for them, nearly as much as they do. 2) you can't prove it worked.
It's far better to teach someone to do the spell themselves (assuming you are able to give them a little one-on-one time.
In writing spells for others, you (unless you know them very well) won't know what symbolism works specifically for them. Nor do you know that they understand the basics of spellcasting, raising energy, etc. Therefore you may be selling them what to them is basically a worthless piece of paper.
Spell kits are more acceptable, IMO, since even if they don't know the basic principles of spellcasting, you're at least selling them a product - a candle, incense, etc for example.
I'm a firm believer that most spells are not one-size fits all. Even if a spell works for you, and you've tried it before, it still doesn't mean it will work for someone else.
If someone gives you a spell, I recommend sitting down with it, figuring out why it works. And if it works for you personally (does it strike a chord?) and then trying it, possibly with modifications that suit your own outlook.
I remember hearing an interview with the woman who wrote the Joy of Cooking where she said something to the effect of, "heck no! I didn't test every one of those hundreds of recipes.
I've heard the same thing from some of the pagan authors out there. "Nah, we didn't test them, we just made stuff up." Now that doesn't mean that the spells they made up are bad ones, maybe they're great. Or maybe not. Who knows?
As far as the further ethics of money and witchcraft, I have no problem charging to teach a public class. For instance, I've often taught paid classes to the public, at seminars and at local stores. That I consider a service, and I charge little and try to give the students their money's worth.
I also charge for readings, as once again that's a service.
The exceptions here, I never charge for public classes or readings to my personal coven.
Regarding Seekers and those of the path not in my personal coven, if I'm teaching a public class and they show up and can afford to pay, I'll let them. If they tell me they really want to take my class but can't afford it, I'll generally let them skate, or ask them to do something for me - give me a ride somewhere, make me lunch, or even better, do something for someone else and pass on the good energy.
If I'm just in the mood to teach the class or if I really think they need it, I'll often just hold a private class for Seekers, at no charge. Sometimes it's a great way to help me perfect and test-drive my classes, so it benefits me too.
Regarding readings, if we're just hanging out doing readings together, I don't charge. If I suggest doing a reading for someone because I sense they need it, I don't charge.
In the end, I find that the good karma from teaching my own Seekers (yes, that includes you guys  ) is better than money.
And as far as selling spells goes, I'd rather either sell a kit (which I don't presently do) or just give the spell away and will good karma to return to me from my gift. In the long run, I've found that karma beats money most days.
“There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.” — Albert Einstein
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| NShepard | Date: Thursday, 2011-09-15, 7:22 PM | Message # 5 |
 Luis
Group: Fold
Messages: 31
Status: Offline
| Wow, i really like this discussion, i think keeping a journal of you're spell work is an excellent idea and something tells me, the more u practice, if you're consistant with it, then you're gonna see that the entries in you're journal are going to speak "so to say" more and more of results and more and more of events taking place, that you can put a finger on, that is, in terms of tracing the outcome of event back to something u did in spell work. Also i would imagine that the more spell work u do, the more psychic channels are established between you're consciouss and you're sub-consciouss and you're higher self. Not that i'm any expert, but i've experienced sucess in ones art, usually coming from repetition and doing something you have a sincere desire to do and interest to suceed in. No matter what kind of art it may be, so spell work should be no different, in regards to this. Lol., my opinion.
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| Lemur | Date: Thursday, 2011-09-15, 8:01 PM | Message # 6 |
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She Who Must Be Obeyed
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| Excellent point, NS and very true.
“There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.” — Albert Einstein
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| ModernMage | Date: Thursday, 2011-09-15, 11:43 PM | Message # 7 |
 Nion
Group: Administrators
Messages: 90
Status: Offline
| I'd have to fully agree with Lemur on all points. However my personal experiences may be different, which is why I'm offering my two drachmas.
You will hear a lot about creating a magickal mindset, and in many ways most of the trappings of ritual are to convince your subconscious to do or accept something. That's why personal symbolism is so important. If you think it worked, then it did. Every time you can believe that it makes the next spell easier. Disbelief in Self is magickal suicide.
In my own experiences, when I do a spell "right" and the desire is strong I KNOW it worked immediately after casting the spell. Not the next day, not a week later, but that very moment. How do I know? How do I know the sun will rise? It just IS. The converse is also true. I know if a spell will not work typically halfway through the casting or right after.
Here's an example. One time I was having some major problems with a manager at work. I even considered using darker magick to make them stop bothering me. Haha I was even pricing hot foot powder lol. But, I stopped myself and visualized the person and I surrounded them, tied them, up with white light and commanded that they no longer could do me harm. I did this for about 3-4 minutes and then...it was done. I felt ALL my anxiety go away and I felt like there was a hand of the Gods saying, 'that's enough, that's all you need to do." I felt it like I feel my heart beating now. And I knew with no doubt in my mind it worked. And it did. He never bothered me or even spoke to me again (he actually got a promotion which took him away from direct influence with me).
I didn't tell the spell to give him a promotion. As Lemur said, energy takes the path of least resistance so I try not to use specifics. Most of my spells work this way. I know within a minute after I cast if it will work. But that's me.
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| ModernMage | Date: Thursday, 2011-09-15, 11:55 PM | Message # 8 |
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Nion
Group: Administrators
Messages: 90
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| I would also highly recommend learning to become sensitive to magickal energies. I'm an Evocationalist at heart so I'm biased hehe but if you can feel the energies you're working with and can feel them in the spell, then that solves 75% of the problems before they can begin.
An example of this: I was on standby to go on a cruise. (We were #2 and it was my first cruise and my husband worked for the cruise company). He didn't think we were going to get on. So, I evoked water energy into a tight ball and told it that I really wanted to go in the cruise. I infused the water energy with my desire until I could feel the ball squirming like a little kid. The ball told me it was done and to LET GO, and I did. I knew once I let it go it worked. We got on. How?? A water pipe in two rooms burst and flooded the carpet. It was ok for standby employees to use the rooms, the normal passengers got a free upgrade.
I knew it was going to work because I could feel the energy.
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